I really liked that article, I have been there acouple times on a fly over but never really knew their history or plight.

Well I never. Nice one Ciaran.

An extremely biased article actually… The Island is not of one mind on this issue and is in fact more like Quebec in Canada in that it’s usually considered fairly evenly distributed between those who don’t want to go be a part of China and those who do. Also this article fairly glosses over another important part that those in control in Taiwan and, for the most part, the independance movment there are not the natives. I kind of think that this article pushed them to the front for sympathies sake, but instead most of those in power and pushing the split are the losers of the Mao Revolution in Mainland China. Before anyone starts attacking me for being pro-China this all came from my ex-girlfriend’s uncle who up until about three years ago was the head of Taiwan’s Treasury department and who used to be one of the top people in the government Mao overthrew. Their family lost everything in the revolution.

As for what will happen in the future. Wait till 2008, after the olympics China already has plans to deal with this situation and I mean that in the most sinister way possible. I was talking with a student’s boyfriend who is a teacher in one of China’s major military schools and he basically told me that the army has been told that after the olympics China will no longer stand by on this issue. They’ll wait till after to make sure there is no scandal that would hurt this olympics (these olympics are VERY important to Chinese pride, it’s their way of showing hte world how far they’ve come). He said that the people in China’s army are very excited for it because war means the militaries salaries go up a lot (no I’m not kidding) and so they all know that if Taiwan resists they all make a lot of money.It’s sick and I’m a little worried being here actually… maybe 2008 I’ll takea year off China or something.

Holy fuck, Che.

word. christ.

2008?

isn’t that a year before the US presidential election?

interesting…

no, that is the year of the presidential election…

che, why would china want to war with Taiwan in 2008 of all times? Have they just been waiting for their military to slowly upgrade?

Overall, I liked Yixian’s article. It’s certainly a more productive use of his time than demonizing marijuana As nuber pointed out, it’s certainly biased, and also a little inaccurate. The U.S. dollar now buys less RMB than it ever has, at least during these last three years that I’ve been exchanging them.

Explicitly stating that about one million refugees from the mainland migrated to Taiwan in 1949 after being defeated by the communists in a civil war, and that their KMT organization then went on to dominate the larger majority of “native” Taiwanese would have given the article a little more balance. When I used to receive CCTV9, the only English mainland TV channel, I once saw a documentary showing the resistance on Han Taiwanese Chinese to the Japanese during WWII. It seemed to be equating these Taiwanese with the Communists, who led the fight against the Japanese on the mainland. I interpreted this as an official promotion of solidarity with the Taiwanese.

In 1995, I took a Chinese history course from Taiwanese professor in America. At the time, he seemed to be wrestling with the realization that his lifelong expectation of the KMT someday returning to take control of China wasn’t going to happen. Last year I was talking to an American in Taiwan about this attitude, and he laughed about the Taiwanese still using 1949 maps of China, which include Mongolia in the borders. The few Taiwanese that I did ask about the unification issue didn’t seem too concerned about it. Like the Taiwanese who freely travel about the mainland that I’ve spoken with, they believe the new economic investments between the two countries will lead to some agreeable resolution.

They are, no doubt, aware of China’s officially declared intentions of reclaiming Taiwan, “We believe that the war will not obstruct the holding of the 2008 Olympic Games.”, “even if that means we have to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of soldiers!”

My opinion is that the mainland Chinese would readily and fanatically support a war over Taiwan, but that the actual killing of too many fellow Chinese at this point in their history would be catastrophic to their national psyche. The KMT took a lot of the best and brightest with them when they left. The mainlanders are still repairing the damage done by the Cultural Revolution. Chinese Culture is what ultimately binds this vast population. The new prosperity has made the Chinese even more chauvinistic about the superiority of all things Chinese and the independence-minded Taiwanese are the most devoted lovers of traditional Chinese culture.

Good article. But I bet the Chinese patiently wait to swallow up Taiwan, like Hong Kong and Macau. Seems there’s to much at stake here for massive violence.

“My opinion is that over Taiwan, but that the actual killing of too many fellow Chinese at this point in their history would be catastrophic to their national psyche.”

Yeah, the Chinese people pretty much believe that their govt has no imperialist or international agendas.

No Chinese person I ever met supported any war with Taiwan.

But, like you say “the mainland Chinese would readily and fanatically support a war”, its scary, but living in China I know and you know that the Chinese people could and would support pretty much anything as long as they are waving a big fuck off Chinese flag.

Its almost like the entire country is waiting for someone to piss them off so they can really show off their nationalism.

“Its almost like the entire country is waiting for someone to piss them off so they can really show off their nationalism.”

Exactly… not to mention just how strong htey are now. That’s why I’m fucking terrified for the world int he future, China tries to come off as this modest country where everyone talks about how poor they are but when you actually get to talking with many people some here are so fucking full of themselves and China it’s sick.

“che, why would china want to war with Taiwan in 2008 of all times? Have they just been waiting for their military to slowly upgrade?”

it’s not about their tech, they are waiting till after the olympics. If they were to attack before the olympics it could create problems during the olympics with countries boycotting and such. Even just someone making any sort of speech about how China is bad would put egg o nt heir face and for the Chinese these olympics are so important for their national pride is incredible.

Their tech wont be upgraded in time really, although they may have more boats to crosst he straight with though which would be good for them anyway.

To be honest I’m guessing Taiwan wont stand up to them, The US can’t fight China so I don’t see how they could possibly back Taiwan with anything except words or UN issues which China can just Veto. I think in the end Taiwan and China will come to some sort of agreement that leaves Taiwan with China but still lets Taiwan save face anyway. I hope so… if not things here are going to get very ugly.

Realistically, it is completely and totally in the advantage of the Taiwan govt to join with China.

Maybe they are just waiting for the US to give them lots of weapons before they join the CCP. That would be the smart move because it is impossible for the US, aside from completely nuking Taiwan to really stop China from taking over.

Yeah I really don’t even get why they don’t want to, if they were their own country they would be shite. I know they are all still bitter over the whole Mao thing but fuck… China isn’t even really following Mao’s principles anymore so who cares.

The Island is not of one mind on this issue and is in fact more like Quebec in Canada in that it’s usually considered fairly evenly distributed between those who don’t want to go be a part of China and those who do.

I liked Yixian’s article…it’s certainly biased, and also a little inaccurate.

The bias in the article is, frankly, unscrupulous, as it poses as a historical and academic-like piece. I’m sure it would be possible to write an article like it about Hawaii or Alaska, not to mention Texas or California twenty or thirty years from now and be more in synch with the ethnic realities involved.

Not only do most Taiwanese not want to declare independence from mainland, as has been measured in detail over the past couple of years as the Taiwan president tried to advance such a declaration and as the mass population of Taiwan was measured by many polls and surveys over and over again, but the President of Taiwan, leader of the so-called independence movement is facing demonstrations and possible impeachment-like proceedings.

AS far as a proactive interest by mainland to have war with Taiwan, that is utterly false and twisted rhetoric. Mainland wants peaceful unification and the Taiwanese are more and more involved in mainland business, culture and travel than ever before.

Well, I have never been to Taiwan, aside from a 2 hour stopover, but from the Taiwanese people I have met they dont want to join China almost a much as they see themselves as nationalist Chinese.

So in other words, its pretty much inevitable that Taiwan will join China.

“AS far as a proactive interest by mainland to have war with Taiwan, that is utterly false and twisted rhetoric.”

Tell that to the nuclear missiles aimed at Taiwan, or the hundreds of thousands of Chinese soldiers who are ready to die in Taiwan.

“Mainland wants peaceful unification and the Taiwanese are more and more involved in mainland business, culture and travel than ever before.”

WHo are you? Their spokesman?

The Chinese govt wants to own Taiwan just as much as the US does. Your bizzare take on China and its motives means nothing really.

“The bias in the article is, frankly, unscrupulous”

Indeed! Always good to keep in mind where information is coming from! Like when you read something really pro mainland China from someone who threatens those who disagree with him about China with Torture and death, right lot08. Not that I’m saying anyone here would do that, lot08, of course. i’m sure that you are being entirely unbiased in your review of taiwan and of mainland China’s feelings towards war.

And I’m sure Memnoch, who you also would never threaten with torture and death for speaking ill of China of course, would agree!

Good to have biased comments from both sides of hte spectrum anyway I guess, keeps things balanced!

Not that I’m saying your’s were biased lot! Honest! Please don’t torture than kill me.

Jesus! I guess Memnoch didn’t agree with me. Kill and torture him NOT ME!!

Oh man, you are so CIA Not_Uberche. Stop all the pretending!

You are destroying the peace loving Chinese with your imperalist propaganda!

China only wants peace. Just look at the communist partys history if you want proof! (and dont read western imperialist capitalis in-roader fiction, its all lies!)

I doubt Taiwan will voluntarily unite with Mainland, but will instead be merged ipso facto when global corporations make borders irrelevant (10 years?).

Borders have been irrelevant for the past 10 years for corporations. But they will never be irrelevent for the rest of us.

“I doubt Taiwan will voluntarily unite with Mainland, but will instead be merged ipso facto when global corporations make borders irrelevant (10 years?).”

Borders are too good for riling up the poor populace against the other Poor of the world to make irrelevant I think…

One image of Taiwan that I will never forget is the Chiang Kai Shek Memorial .

It looks like a cross between the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. and the Heavenly Temple in Beijing.

A giant Chiang sits like Abe on the top floor and below is a museum that documents his and Madame Chiang’s lives. It’s unforgettable in that it is visually stunning, as is the heavenly temple, but also because when the Memorial was erected, the hope for reconquering the mainland was obviously very much alive. One stone inscription has Chiang quoting an ancient general, I think from the Spring and Autumn Period, about some principle for reclaiming territory.

There’s also a Natural History Museum in walking distance from the memorial with what I think is a permanent exhibit on the indigenous people of Taiwan. None of the information presented is translated in English, but the dates and maps convey a lot about the historical evidence and replicas. On my last night in Taiwan I went out with other foreigners to an aborigine bar in Tainan. Not very big, but Great atmosphere and live music with fried crickets and mountain rat on the menu. Yea, I even tasted the rat, which I strongly recommend not tasting.

I did not write this article to be particularly bias against China. This was not intended to be a critique of China at all, rather a piece to highlight the siutation of the Taiwanese. If my bias is that the people of Taiwan have more of a right to determining the fate of their island than Beijing or Washington, then yes, it’s biased. The fact is, whether or not Taiwan would be better off as part of China or as a US friendly economic state, and whether or not the population would prefer either option or something entirely different, is not the point; the point is, nobody is listening to them, and it’s not they who are being asked to make the decision.

the chinese nationalists couldn’t fight their way out of a Shaghai whorehouse.

Sarcasm always shags whores while hai.

maybe China will wait patiently for Taiwan the way they did for Hong Kong and Macau?

Memnoch01 and Uberche have been so incessantly anti-China and so forever emerging in tandem and with such rapid response over the past year that I can’t help feeling they are part of a larger anti-China effort funded by the U.S. right wing that includes elements of North American organized crime. I thought Anthony and most people were against multiple identities. Memnoch’s sufficient bank account to enable him to travel a lot and take some interesting photos and his occasional faake biographical semi-literary pieces shouldn’t endear him to anyone interested in truth and justice.

I never threatened Memnoch and he and Uberche keep regurgitating this kind of defamation of character over and over for months now. I merely said I like to see him face one sort of justice or another, never that I would or could do it.

There are more forms of concerted larger power psyops going on here at GNN than have been addressed on occasion. The site may even provide a place to exercise different agents and agent assets, and their different rhetorics besides helping to create 9/11 confusion/noise and anti-MIC intolerance and indifference.

“Memnoch01 and Uberche have been so incessantly anti-China and so forever emerging in tandem and with such rapid response over the past year that I can’t help feeling they are part of a larger anti-China effort funded by the U.S. right wing that includes elements of North American organized crime.”

I have already PM’d you. I am more than willing to talk to you in real life.

Uberche is my friend you dumbshit.

Edit: And you did threaten me.

You mean you felt threatened, don’t you? You can hardly say I threatened you if I say I did not. I said something that made you really feel threatened or that made you feel like saying that you were threatened? Tell us, lone Asian motorcycle traveler, what exactly went down to make you feel threatened or that prompted you to complain that you were being threatened?

I have already PM’d you. I am more than willing to talk to you in real life.

So, Memnoch @GNN isn’t real life. Just what I thought.

You threatened to call the Chinese police on me. You have been to China. That is a real threat. I am just a guy. I have PM’d you, I have written to you, and you never wrote back to me.

You said I should be tortured by the fucking Chinese police.

You can call me, meet me, anything you want.

I dont care about internet dramas. I dont want this to be written out here mostly because I have some fucking pride.

I will PM you once more and offer you opportunity to contact me in real life. If you decline then please, just fuck off.

“So, Memnoch @GNN isn’t real life. Just what I thought.”

This is the internet moron.

Memnoch01 and Uberche have been so incessantly anti-China and so forever emerging in tandem and with such rapid response over the past year that I can’t help feeling they are part of a larger anti-China effort funded by the U.S. right wing that includes elements of North American organized crime

pure gold right there, ladies and gentlemen. puuuuuuuuuure gold.

And if anyone is reading this other than Lot08, I gave him my telephone number when I was in China when he first threatened me with torture by the Chinese police because I thought that if he called me maybe I could convince him I am not CIA or something. He didnt call me. Then I went to Beijing and told Lot O8 beforehand and offered to meet him, he declined.

Lot 08 is a paranoid psycho coward.

I just PM’d him and I highly doubt he will answer because if he finds out that I am just some guy living with his mother with no govt connections that will shatter his paranoid fantasies.

You threatened to call the Chinese police on me. You have been to China. That is a real threat. I am just a guy.

You’re simply raving about this. You’ve said this several times, now. Show me the exact language you’re raving about.

You said I should be tortured by the fucking Chinese police.

I think that’s true. I think that’s a quote. Why didn’t you put that in quotation marks if that was indeed my precise opinion.

Since when is expressing an opinion a true threat and not just something that exists as a true threat in your mind. Why not connect all the dots, writer? Explain why you’ve persisted in expressing a feeling of being threatened.

You are loquacious enough when you write your fraudulent biographical (or, mere Internet life) stories. What’s holding you back now? What’s all this stuff about setting up a meeting with me so that real life can take place. What the fuck are you really Memnoch?

First you travel by motorcycle across China, Vietnam and Cambodia and now you’re just a guy living with his mother!?

I sent you my email adress.

Reply through that or fuck off.

How does Snark, another, supposed Canadian, come out of the woodwork all of a sudden, just for two seconds, just to comment right after my CBGB remark precisely while Memnoch and I were right in the middle of a dispute about China and each other — along with another of Memnoch’s alter egos — Uberch (_his friend_), who, mind you, has cut out. Meanwhile, Memnoch has remained singularly obsessed with my comments here, and much more confident and apparently feeling less threatened and more focused on being Memnoch1 instead of being Snark or Uberche.

Its because you have a mental illness.

You still havent emailed me.

And Lot? We were not in a discussion about China.

You cant even speak Chinese.

Wo xiwang wo jian ni, wo yao da nide lian, ni wangba baichi gepao.

haha holy shit lot YOU ROCK! Yes sorry I left, the appartment below me had a pipe burst in the ceiling and they thought they were going to need to tear down my wall to get at the pipe. Turns out it was all something of a mistake.. not sure how exactly but I don’t really care, I have my house back again which is nice.

“Memnoch01 and Uberche have been so incessantly anti-China “

Really?! That is pretty amazing news to me. I love China, it’s a great place for me to live. Yeah I have problems with some of their ideals and policies but overall the Chinese people rock and it’s a great place to be right now. In fact if you read my posts above I’m actually arguing that Taiwan is actually a part of China and that the independance movement isnt’ run by well meaning natives but instead by angry losers of the Mao revolution still looking to strike back at China.

“they are part of a larger anti-China effort funded by the U.S. right wing that includes elements of North American organized crime.”

HOLY SHIT! I really wish we had signatures, that would be mine! I’m now apparently a right wing US Crime lord then? Sweet! I only wish the pay was better…

“Memnoch’s sufficient bank account to enable him to travel a lot”

I thought you lived in China, anyone who has ever been here should know it costs next to nothing to live and if you work even moderately hard you can make enough to travel Asia to your heart’s content. Of course if you’re lazy and bad with money like me you don’t get to so much… But I will hopefully be doing the Vietnam, Cambodia, laos tour the next holiday. If you’d like I can keep track of how much money I spend and we can see just how well off Memnoch must be.

“I think that’s true. I think that’s a quote. Why didn’t you put that in quotation marks if that was indeed my precise opinion.”

So you’re denying that you once told us we should be torture for our comments about China?

“How does Snark, another, supposed Canadian, “

haha he got ya Snark! He knows you’ve been hiding out here on GNN biding your time pretending to be another person when in fact you are none othere than… MEMNOCH IN DISGUISE! and you would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for that meddling lot08!!

Wow… you truly are paranoid and delusional man… sorry the US locked you up for making those threatening comments or whatever happened in the US but man… get over it. Just because people dont’ share your hard-on for CHina doesn’t make everyone else US spies intent on badmouthing China on a message board.

“Wo xiwang wo jian ni, wo yao da nide lian, ni wangba baichi gepao.”

He’s so going toget you tortured for that one!

He’s so going toget you tortured for that one!

Hmm, and this will please you?

greatly.