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Headlines : Civil Liberties10-year-old censored in school talent show
The important part of the article is where the Broward County school district official claims that a principle has every right to restrict free speech at a school function. This is simply not true. Every American is protected under the First Amendment, irregardless of age, and public school officials are as bound by the 1st Amendment as any government employees. Aside from being common sense, this fact was upheld in the 1969 Supreme Court Case of Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District
It’s one thing for an elementary school student to be ignorant of her Constitutional rights. There is simply no excuse for a principle and her superiors, who are allegedly in the business of education, to be ignorant of the single most important American document.
Of course, as anyone who has attended public school in America knows, student’s rights are rarely protected in reality. The original hope for public education was that it would help educate the public about our rights and duties as American citizens. Unfortunately, contemporary public schools teach little more than obedience.
[Posted By bacchus]Republished from South Florida Sun-Sentinel
A 10-year-old Coral Springs girl won’t be allowed to sing a controversial President Bush-bashing ballad at her school talent show after her principal deemed it inappropriate and too political.
The song, Dear Mr. President, performed and co-written by the singer Pink, criticizes the president for the war in Iraq and other policies, including his stance on gay rights.
LocalLinks
Parent Nancy Shoul says her daughter Molly should be lauded for choosing lyrics that are full of substance rather than pop music fluff. She said the principal’s ban sends a bad message and violates her daughter’s right to free speech.
“If this was a student singing a pro-administration song, no one would quibble with it,” Shoul said. “The principal is just running scared and doesn’t want to upset any parents.”
The principal of Park Springs Elementary, Camille Pontillo, could not be reached for comment Thursday. In an e-mail provided by the mother, Pontillo explained that the song Molly “chose to sing is a political song and does use the word hell in it.” A Broward County School District official said the principal has every right to determine what music her students should hear at a school function.
“This is a fifth-grade student that wants to perform a…
Posted by bacchus
Born in Nysa (in present day Turkey), raised by nymphs and satyrs. Son of Zeus and a mortal named Semele. Youngest of the Olympian gods. Patron god of vines, fruit trees, gardens, agriculture and fertility. Patron god of the stage (the happy and scowling...
Putting words and ideology in a child’s mouth is no better than putting a rifle in someone’s hands without explanation. Last year I filed a complaint against an ad exactly for the same reasons.
New Age parents …
yeah, a 10 year old is not old enough to form their own political opinions.
That is what the debate team is for in highschool.
“gay rights”
what’s next, bush bashing because he infringes on “rapist rights”
P.S: i really detest George W. Bush.
Molly said she plans to select a new song for the show later this month with a message she thinks school officials wouldn’t object to: A hip-hop song about two girls fighting over a boy.
yea cause teaching little girls to fight over boys is way more important….have to suck the kids into pop culture before they have a chance to really realize whats going on in this world.
fuck bush, fuck whoever made the choice to censor her and fuck anoyone who inhibits free speech. if you dont like what someone says..you have three choices;
a. walk away
b. say something
c. say nothing
do one of the three ahd move on with your life, if you dont like it tough. I’ve had to listen to bush for 6 years now and not once has someone shut him up. so do us all favour and fuck off
I see public school has done it’s job. Excellent job of obeying the status quo mike & wodan.
So…. mike isn’t school and culture in general about “putting words and ideology in a child’s mouth”? Is the principal any more correct than the parent?
What a 10 year old can form opinions on would suprise you Wodan. I guess you’ve forgetten your larval stage, but I remember having strong opinions on just about anything someone would teach me about.
It’s the easiest thing in the world for a child to disagree with Bush. He’s a monster and a villian of fairy tale proportions. He’s killing innocent people and opressing his own citizens. He’s destroying the environment. It’s like the sheriff of nottingham had a love-child with Hitler and the bad guys from Captain Planet. What a great target for those children who haven’t decided that guns and war and killing people is “COOL” like the administration wants them to believe. I mean, just look at all the flashy military recruitment commercials? They’re aimed lower than Joe Camel if you ask me… looks just like a game of Halo or something.
I guess you’ve forgetten your larval stage
Haha, awesome.
My larval stage was one without the daily tally of death and destruction while eating supper in front of TV. Censure sucks, I agree. Provoking censure as a ploy to gain attention while using an innocent also sucks.
Quite ironic that verbal abuse is used to quiet someone in the name of freedom of speech.
I’m sorry, but as a teacher I can say with certainty that a ten-year-old would not be capable of fully understanding the lyrics in that song.
Besides which, were I a parent, I’m not sure I would be willing to expose my child to a song which discusses cocaine and war. Children grow up way too fast in this country. A ten-year-old should be playing with toys and giggling with friends, not memorizing lyrics about politics and drug abuse.
“I see public school has done it’s job. Excellent job of obeying the status quo mike & wodan.”
Hey, don’t categorize me like that.
I have been censored by schools, it sucks big time.
That is why I avoided public school as much as possible. private school + homeschool for me. Public schools are fascist.
So, a scholar with 30 years of study and discipline is on par with a ten year old? No wonder the US is such a mess, no difference is made between libertinage, whims, provocation and liberty.
So you mean to say that if I want to paint the US flag on my dick and protest naked on the streets, brandishing the 1st amendment, that I am in my right?
There is more to perspective than left and right … top and bottom still exists. I can see that anger and frustration has made some people in dire need of a good neck massage to restore their abilities to look up and to look down.
Jesus… she’s 10 years old… You don’t have freedom of speech when you’re 10 years old! I’d ground my daughter for a week if i heard her using certain language, and I wouldn’t be letting her listen to music about this kind of subject matter…
No, school isn’t for putting words and ideology into a childs mouth. It’s for putting math, reading and other stuff we call ‘education’ into their heads…
If you’re of the opinion that children can make up their own minds about stuff like this, i suggest we stop opposing the teaching of Intelligent Design in science class, as the children are old enough to decide for themselves what really happened…
Trish, don’t tell me you’re one of those fascist teachers who teach age-appropriate lessons and stuff… There’s no earthly reason not to use hard-core fetish porn in health class… open your mind!!!
From the mouths of babes….(until some nazi prick principle slaps them down)
Ah, ya you do have the right to free speech when you’re 10. Being aloud to swear at 10 is not a free speech issue it’s a bad parenting issue and has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech doesn’t mean being able to swear freely. Don’t be so stupid. I think people who don’t understand free speech shouldn’t be able to speak. Hah.
Trish – Besides which, were I a parent, I’m not sure I would be willing to expose my child to a song which discusses cocaine and war
Hahahahahahahhahaha. News flash…..have your kids ever had a TV on or the radio? Then they’ve heard it already. Do they go to school? Then they’ve heard it already. FYI, it doesn’t discuss ‘cocaine and war’ (much like the president doesn’t discuss anything) it merely mentions it in the context of the president. If he can call himself leader of the country then anyone can call him an alcoholic and former cocaine user BECAUSE IT“S TRUE!!!
when I was a young lad I used to sing along and break-dance to Eric Clapton’s Cocaine. My parents thought it was hilarious.
If you got bad news, you wanna kick them blues.
Cocaine.
When your day is done and you wanna run.
Cocaine.
er… just thought I’d share that embarassing childhood fact.
I also remember winning a local poetry contest in grade 3 or 4 and getting upstaged by some grade-fiver who wrote a depressing poem about the Exxon Valdez oil spill, which just totally buried my poem about being home alone.
When I was ten, Iraq War I was underway, and I do remember teachers openly discussing it in class with us. So I’m not sure that any of this is beyond the grasp of a bright ten-year old, especially now that kids have access to the internet. They may not have a full understanding of world politics, but neither do the vast majority of voters.
huh.. I saw that ‘stupid girls’ video of hers – pretty funny stuff. I thought turning off your brain was mandatory for a female singer in that genre of music.
Although I’m fairly sure every stand-up comedian would disagree, i figure you know what you’re talking about here… So, to back up your claim I parsed the term ‘freedom of speech’, and what i came up with is the following:
Freedom:
The condition of being free of restraints.
Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
Political independence.
Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom.
Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels.
The right to unrestricted use; full access: was given the freedom of their research facilities.
The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference: “the seductive freedoms and excesses of the picaresque form” (John W. Aldridge).
Of
Derived or coming from; originating at or from: customs of the South.
Caused by; resulting from: a death of tuberculosis.
Away from; at a distance from: a mile east of here.
So as to be separated or relieved from: robbed of one’s dignity; cured of distemper.
From the total or group comprising: give of one’s time; two of my friends; most of the cases.
Composed or made from: a dress of silk.
Associated with or adhering to: people of your religion.
Belonging or connected to: the rungs of a ladder.
Possessing; having: a person of honor.
On one’s part: very nice of you.
Containing or carrying: a basket of groceries.
Specified as; named or called: a depth of ten feet; the Garden of Eden.
Centering on; directed toward: a love of horses.
Produced by; issuing from: products of the vine.
Characterized or identified by: a year of famine.
With reference to; about: think highly of her proposals; will speak of it later.
In respect to: slow of speech.
Set aside for; taken up by: a day of rest.
Before; until: five minutes of two.
During or on a specified time: of recent years.
By: beloved of the family.
Used to indicate an appositive: that idiot of a driver.
Archaic. On: “A plague of all cowards, I say” (Shakespeare).
Speech:
The faculty or act of speaking.
The faculty or act of expressing or describing thoughts, feelings, or perceptions by the articulation of words.
Something spoken; an utterance.
Vocal communication; conversation.
A talk or public address: “The best impromptu speeches are the ones written well in advance” (Ruth Gordon).
A printed copy of such an address.
One’s habitual manner or style of speaking.
The language or dialect of a nation or region: American speech.
The sounding of a musical instrument.
The study of oral communication, speech sounds, and vocal physiology.
Nope… I have to go with FREEDOM OF SPEECH = FREEDOM OF SPEECH
I think we both agree it would be a bad parenting issue, though. And that issue would be the parent not setting the proper boundries on their childs speech in some way.
I’m imagining someone breakdancing to Eric Clapton… when cultures colide…
nicely put WodanAilbhe “...Public schools are fascist.” They are very they do put many things into your head that have no place there, especially when your are developing and are at your most influencial stages. I’m just happy i went to a school that had a good amount of liberal teachers so i at least got a bit of good information. Even though I’m not saying that liberals ahve it all down cause i know they don’t.
P.S. Check out Sander Hicks, He is the Green Party Candidate forU.S. Senate from New York. He’s got some great ideas and wants to try and get some truth to the people. He has a profile here at gnn check it out. http://sander.gnn.tv/
The fact that these topics are openly showcased on television and on the radio does not mean that I have to allow my [fictional] ten-year-old to sing about it in a school talent show.
There are practical reasons why censorship exists in schools. If you don’t understand that, I don’t think it’s worth my time trying to explain it.
A hyper kid can breakdance to complete silence… these were the pre-ADHD days, so I had no meds to keep me from spontaneously spinning on the floor like Curly.
“Jesus… she’s 10 years old… You don’t have freedom of speech when you’re 10 years old! I’d ground my daughter for a week if i heard her using certain language, and I wouldn’t be letting her listen to music about this kind of subject matter…”
so what music artists does your daughter listen to? does she listen to the radio? you cant control EVERYTHING she hears or says.
I remember disticly walking down the streets when i was 8 or 9 singing “gangster paradise” with my friend (Coolio sang the song which released with the movie Dangerous Minds).
“P.S. Check out Sander Hicks, He is the Green Party Candidate”
I will will never vote for green party so long as Richard Warman is with them.
He suppresses free speech, free opinion and expression, and threatens librarians to pull books off the shelves, and pastors to cancel tax-awarness seminars.
The green pary is not a choice.
does someone not want to give this girl credit for wanting to make a differance?
no wonder todays youth/teens dont care about politics…......were not given a chance to discuss it. no here go ahead play with your toys and watch tv. Here’s a playstation, go play with that. You subject them into fiction and illusion as children which only carries over into their teens. How many teenagers spend COUNTLESS HOURS on their computer playin games talking to heir friends and playing video games? How many hours of tv a week to teenagers watch?
Your not helping the problem but only making it worse. I know as parents you might think you are doing something good, but sheltering your child is not going to save them. Its better to have your own parents explain it to you then have to find out on your own and try to figure it out on your own. My mother was someone who believe in STRICT rules and sheltering me from the “evil” world…...(im gettin off my point)
So why not let this little girl express her views? cause shes too young? oh well too late now. so instead of her politically charged song, let her sing some hip hop song that will only further degrade women, glorify gun violence, gangs and violence. CLAPS great idea!!
He suppresses free speech
Here we go again.
Criminal Code of Canada
Sections 318 and 319 of the Criminal Code make it a criminal offence to:
*advocate genocide
*publicly incite hatred
*wilfully promote hatred
against an “identifiable group.”
An identifiable group is defined as any section of the public distinguished by:
*colour
*race
*religion
*ethnic origin
Hatred directed against others groups (such as women, or gays and lesbians) is not punishable under sections 318 and 319.
Peace.Jesus… she’s 10 years old… You don’t have freedom of speech when you’re 10 years old! I’d ground my daughter for a week if i heard her using certain language, and I wouldn’t be letting her listen to music about this kind of subject matter…
Look, I think alot of people are missing the point here… Clearly, parents have the right to censor their child’s speech. The question is whether a government employee (a principal) can censor a citizen’s right to speech on the grounds that it is too political.
The answer is no, the government cannot censor a citizen’s speech on the grounds that it is too political, (age is not a factor relevant to the First Ammendment, see Tinker vs. DesMoines). Why is this important? Because the function of public school is to teach the students about what it means to be an American, wincluding the rights and priviledges thereof, the first of which is the right to express your political opinions without censorship.
This principal, and educators like her across the country, teach the exact opposite; that being an American means keeping quiet and doing as you’re told. As you can see, far too many adult American’s have taken these messages to heart.
If you don’t believe me, check out this study, in which one-third of 100,000 American high school students polled claimed to believe that the First Ammendment goes “too far” and grants too many freedoms.
A ten-year-old should be playing with toys and giggling with friends
Unfortunately it seems the “adults” of these days are too busy doing just as much.
A 10 year old is not too young to have a political opinion… Too young to have a mature philosophy, definately. But kids aren’t simpletons, and if you treat them like they should be excluded from world events, then they are going to be adults that feel they should be excluded from world events. Of course, there is a fine line between encouraging a child to be thoughtful, and outright brainwash… But that is the child’s family’s line to toe, not the guv’ment.
A 10 year old is capable of understanding many things, it is more a matter of scope than ability. A nation’s rights applies to it’s citizens. This is why a nation won’t draft tourists for instance to defend or protect it’s legacies.
A child is not yet a citizen. A child is a young apprentice and education is part of providing the required knowledge and skills to be an autonomous person and to be able to respond to situations with knowledge i.e. to be response-able.
Grooming a 10 year old for political activism is questionable. I think it is cowardly and immoral to use a child to challenge the system. It’s a setup and a mockery of freedom of speech. Remember Jonestown? Do you think children took cyanide eyes opened as a political stance?
Do you think that children being force-fed ideologies in all those fringe nutter groups are willing and lucid partners for the cause?
As far as I’m concerned they are victims.
Do you think Pink will gather her fans and make them drink the kool-aid?
Ok, you guys have changed my mind. I guess we can all agree that she had the freedom to say anything she wanted…
So I’m assuming we’d all be fine if she decided to sing… say… a little confederate ditty about how whites are teh awesome? An ode to the evils of homosexuality? A screed on how liberals are tearing apart america?
Or do we just support her because we agree with her here? Because methinks there woold be a problem here if someone went to their kids school talent show and it was overtly pro-bush… probably something about ‘brainwashing children with political ideology’ and stuff…
I could be wrong, though…
So I’m assuming we’d all be fine if she decided to sing… say… a little confederate ditty about how whites are teh awesome? An ode to the evils of homosexuality?
Somehow I doubt it.
Are those the opposites to this song? Man, that’s sad..
Dear Mr. President – Pink (featuring The Indigo Girls)
Dear Mr. President
Come take a walk with me
Let’s pretend we’re just two people and
You’re not better than me
I’d like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly
What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street
Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep
What do you feel when you look in the mirror
Are you proud
How do you sleep while the rest of us cry
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye
How do you walk with your head held high
Can you even look me in the eye
And tell me why
Dear Mr. President
Were you a lonely boy
Are you a lonely boy
Are you a lonely boy
How can you say
No child is left behind
We’re not dumb and we’re not blind
They’re all sitting in your cells
While you pave the road to hell
What kind of father would take his own daughter’s rights away
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You’ve come a long way from whiskey and cocaine
How do you sleep while the rest of us cry
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye
How do you walk with your head held high
Can you even look me in the eye
Let me tell you bout hard work
Minimum wage with a baby on the way
Let me tell you bout hard work
Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away
Let me tell you bout hard work
Building a bed out of a cardboard box
Let me tell you bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
You don’t know nothing bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
Oh
How do you sleep at night
How do you walk with your head held high
Dear Mr. President
You’d never take a walk with me
Would you
“Or do we just support her because we agree with her here? Because methinks there woold be a problem here if someone went to their kids school talent show and it was overtly pro-bush… probably something about ‘brainwashing children with political ideology’ and stuff…”
haha, that would be irony at its best. but you have to agree that such a young individual making such a bold statement should be congradulated rather than silenced.
i could care less if she went up there yelling “bush is god, we must follow him”. Its the message that the school is sending to this young child.
would u rather her sing a hip hop song about two girls fighting over a guy? how about a britneys spears song “hit me baby one more time” ?
once again you have to agree that such a young individual making such a bold statement should be congradulated rather than silenced.
So I’m assuming we’d all be fine if she decided to sing… say… a little confederate ditty about how whites are teh awesome? An ode to the evils of homosexuality?
that is completely irrelevant….........if u say it isnt
would u support her if she made a song about Dafour? the homeless? the people who cant feed themselves in Africa? those dying with cancer and aids?
or would you tell her to shut up and sit down because shes too young to understand what is going on in the “real world” ?
No, not opposite, and personally I wouldn’t make the comparison… but negativity towards the president would be analogous to any of these things to a large percentage of the population, and I’m betting people like you and I wouldn’t stand for this stuff.
Two way street…
Assuming it was the girl who decided to do this song and not her parents influence, then sure, she should be copmmended for having developed a social conscience at such a young age. But I still see why the principle would ask her to change the song…
Personally I would, but if her principle thought it was innapropriate for the audience, I would understand.
Grooming a 10 year old for political activism is questionable
I agree with you, but you are making an assumption. I think your comparisons between this girl’s choice of song and Jonestown are disproportionate to put it mildly.
k, how about constitutional rights? the fact that everyone has them regardless of age (sex, race, gender, religion etc.?) and it’s the school’s job to convey that little tidbit?
LocalLinks
Key part of the article. I understand why Anthony let this slip by.
nicely put WodanAilbhe
I also like where he equated homosexuality with rape. He’s such an adorable jiggly nazi.
We’re talking about a ten year old’s talent show… guys, pick your battles…
I was 10 when I began questioning the policies of our governments, when the “adults” around me had a differing opinion. I think children should be allowed to speak their mind. While it’s true that some just parrot their parrents’ idiologies without thinking, I’ve found that many people, irregardless of age, do this, so to censor a child for this, one may as well suspend freedom of speech for adults as well.
In my experience, age does not equal maturity.
On the flip-side of this, if the song had been about someone other than an official in the White House administration, nobody would have said boo.
it’s not even her opinion, it’s some other adults opinion she is mimicking, it’s song lyrics.
what’s next, bush bashing because he infringes on rapist rights
oh my god, you’re an idiot.
why is it stupid?
Faggotry is a crime in many countries and is a sin to billions of religious people, and is considered and equal sin to rape.
Yet we bash bush for “not giving them rights” they should be praising bush he doesn’t execute them instead of singing pop songs at school rehersals about infringment on their “rights”.
being gay isn’t a crime in a single developed first world nation. it’s not a crime in most ass-backwards third world nations either.
but most importantly, it’s not a crime in the country you’re referencing, so your reference is completely infantile and idiotic.
furthermore being gay isn’t a violation or an aggressive act against anyone while rape is. do you seriously not see the difference between being gay and sexually forcing yourself on someone, or are you just being retarded on purpose to get a reaction?
“ do you seriously not see the difference between being gay and sexually forcing yourself on someone” yeah i see the difference, doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong.
“...purpose to get a reaction?”
Yeah, it’s easy to piss you off, lol. I wonder when fennec is going to use his “sausage making” justification.
“in 1988, a female Marine
corporal was imprisoned for six months at Quantico Marine Corps Base for
having oral sex with a woman.”
Bring back the good ol’ days please.
“Sodomy originally was banned in every state, but since 1961 the laws
have been repealed or ruled unconstitutional in 26 states. Nine states
have narrowed their laws to apply only to homosexuals. “
Welcome to sodom.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/sex14.htm
“Citing the 14th Amendment’s Due Process Clause, the high court said in its 6-3 ruling that states cannot punish homosexual couples for engaging in sex acts that are legal for heterosexuals.”
That means at least 3 judges agree with me.
“The ruling reverses a 1986 Supreme Court decision, Bowers v. Hardwick, which said individuals have no federal constitutional right to engage in homosexual acts. Until the 1960s, every state prohibited sodomy, but Texas was one of just 13 states in which a law exists and one of just four that banned same-sex sodomy only. The rarely enforced laws carry penalties ranging from fines to 10 years in prison.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33277
“On April 5, a Fijian court sentenced an Australian and a Fijian to two years in prison for offences “against the order of nature” and “gross indecency…Thomas Maxwell McCoskar, a 55-year-old Australian, and Dhirendra Nandan, a 23-year-old Fijian, had allegedly had sex and taken nude pictures of one another in an apartment in the town of Nadi between March 24 and April 3” “link’:http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/12/fiji10466.htm
Is Fiji a third world ass-backwards country?
the military is a whole different world. find me a case of the anti-sodomy laws actually being enforced outside of the military.
yeah i see the difference, doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong
you and a bunch of religious whackjobs saying so doesn’t make it wrong.
your equating homosexuality to rape is possibly the single most offensive thing i’ve seen you say in your career at GNN, and that’s really saying something. congratulations, you’ve graduated from “deluded teenage racist” to “lobotomy-ready waste of skin”
Yeah, it’s easy to piss you off, lol
actually, it’s not. you just have a knack for being so devotedly ignorant that you get me there faster than most. again, congrats.
okay okay, i’m being a little “over the top” for shock value, but i still think it’s a sin.
I always think any type of persuasion in school events or by the government to “promote” being gay, or attack those who are against sodomy is also wrong.
I know at school, we only heard 1 side, “being gay is okay” and that was it, the government should not teach morality.
I don’t think government should dictate morality, or throw people in jail for a pot use or being “gay”.
Only time they should enforce morality is in the military.
60% of South African military personnell has AIDS, having gays in the military is a bad idea and will destroy your army before the enemy does.
that’s more than “a little over the top”. it’s incredibly, jaw droppingly ignorant and offensive. you can think it’s a sin all you want, that’s fine with me. you can even tell me you think it’s a sin and we can discuss that. but when you compare a willful choice in sexual expression that occurs between two consenting adults to a violent, forceful, sexual violation, you leave no room for rational discussion. that’s the point where i start wanting to choke you and hoping that whatever god you believe in realizes that there’s a better use for the calcium in your skeleton than holding your ignorant ass together.
I always think any type of persuasion in school events or by the government to “promote” being gay, or attack those who are against sodomy is also wrong
don’t be stupid. what school promotes being gay? have you ever sat in a classroom where the teacher tried to convince you to be gay?
as far as “attacking those who are against sodomy” i don’t think i’ve ever heard that in a school either – and i’ve worked in, and attended, a whoooooole lot of schools. most present the rather necessary counterpoint that homosexuals are human beings too, and therefore deserve some basic human dignity, but stop short of criticizing any of your dark-ages-era religious beliefs that condemn homosexuality.
I know at school, we only heard 1 side, “being gay is okay” and that was it, the government should not teach morality
that’s not teaching morality, that’s teaching people a degree of civility and respect for each other that’s necessary to coexist. you go to school to learn how to be a member of society, you go to church to get your morality, however twisted and draconian it may be.
“don’t be stupid. what school promotes being gay? have you ever sat in a classroom where the teacher tried to convince you to be gay?”
Yes, gay pride plays were performed at my school.
“Don’t be stupid. what school promotes being gay? My Highschool.
Have you ever sat in a classroom where the teacher tried to convince you to be gay?”
I’ve sat in the office of a faggot principal and told i was suspended because he didn’t like me since I didn’t participate in the “gay is okay” festivities being held there.
“you go to school to learn how to be a member of society”
No, i went to school to learn english mathematics and science. Parents should teach morality and civility.
“but when you compare a willful choice in sexual expression that occurs between two consenting adults to a violent, forceful, sexual violation, you leave no room for rational discussion”
People in the states have served jail time sentence as long or longer than rapists for consensual sodomy, so it’s not completely far off to copmpare the two if the courts have sentenced people to equal time. In Saudi Arabia they hang fags and rapists, so it’s not a far off comparison
*I’ve sat in the office of a faggot principal and told i was suspended because he didn’t like me since I didn’t participate in the “gay is okay” festivities being held there.*
of course you have…
hey whoodini… it’s okay to try and stir the pot to try and inflame the tribal members. I’m the last to try and coddle the emotions of the average Grrr’lla. Like I fucking give a shit. Hell, you wanna continue bending the truth here and there so it fits into your asshattery a little better… go for it cupcake, you’ve got my blessing. It’s amuses me watching you try. But c’mon dude, if you’re gonna outright lie try and be a little less obvious about it. This never happened to you, stupid . Just like the staff at the infirmary isn’t really stealing that extra pudding cup some old bat hides every night in the boiler room . It’s just some janitor doing his job.
JustLurking, my temporary principal was a faggot. He orchestrated a gay pride or gay “acceptance” play. I, as a moral beacon of light in my school refused to watch it(which was like skipping a class).
= me being suspended.
I would give more detailed information, but seeing as i have already recieved death threats, i don’t like giving too detailed info.
Speaking of persuading kids into accepting sexual deviancy…
“BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) — Ever since her 5-year-old brought home a book from kindergarten that depicted a gay family, Tonia Parker has felt that her parenting has been under attack in the only state that allows same-sex marriage.” cnn
OdinPatrick
“Friend of Stormfront”
Sustaining Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 992
Peace.No, i went to school to learn english mathematics and science. Parents should teach morality and civility.
well its obvious your parents did a horrbile job
I wish we could bring to bear all this flaming on Bush … he’d be roasted by now. :-)
I like the lyrics and I can understand how a young girl looking up to a militant artist would like to emulate what she perceives of the message.
If those were her own lyrics I would support her right to deliver her message as unconditionaly as many do here.
The current climate in the US has made classrooms battlefields for ideologies. Children are like pawns in this social conflict. Extremists from the left and the right are just simply wrong. Weither it is supporting Greenpeace or “Intelligent design”, it is still indoctrination, not education in the common sense of the word.
It seems we are blind to the fact when circumstances are in agreement with our point of vue.
my temporary principal was a faggot. He orchestrated a gay pride or gay “acceptance” play. I, as a moral beacon of light in my school refused to watch it (which was like skipping a class). = me being suspended.
no you weren’t.. don’t lie… never happened… although announcing yourself as a walking “moral beacon of light”, well that’s the sort of presumptuos bullshit that cracks me up over coffee and my morning paper. I haven’t flipped to “teh funnies” in weeks. I just come here, you bein such an amusing little cocklicker…
:)
btw..speaking of morals… beacons of light.
Didja ya hear the one about where Jesus walks into a hotel, steps up to the front desk… slams down a hammer and some spikes and says…. Hey, could you put me up for the night?
fuckin hilarious huh
mike, if that’s true, then nobody has ever had a single original thought or a point of view of their own. if all we are is indoctrinated from childhood, then who’s to say the political point of view of a teacher is more valid than that of a student? by your logic they both get it spoonfed to them by someone else.
at the age of 10, i was personally extremely politically aware. yes, my parents had a hand in it, but by teaching and encouraging critical thinking, not by telling me what to think. i distinctly remember disagreeing with them over Gulf War 1 (i was about 10 or 11 at the time).
Odin: i really have nothing else to say to you. you continue to believe that equating rape with homosexuality is a perfectly rational and moral thing to do and you are scouring the internet looking for stuff to justify your morally repugnant, inhuman, dark age beliefs.
i certainly hope your god can forgive you for the hate you’re holding in your heart, because most of us humans are gonna have a hard time doing it.
David Parker subsequently got arrested for refusing to leave a Lexington school after officials refused to meet his demand that he be notified when homosexuality was discussed in his son’s class.
Now the Parkers and another couple have sued the school district in federal court, claiming Lexington officials violated their parental rights to teach morals to their own children.
The way they and other opponents of gay marriage see it, the 2003 ruling that cleared the way for same-sex weddings has emboldened gay rights advocates in the state of Massachusetts to push their views in schools and ignore those who feel homosexuality is immoral.
The Parkers should take their kids out of public schools if they feel so strongly about their narrow views. Schools shouldn’t accomodate religious flimflammery no matter what shape it takes, be it anti-evolution or anti-gay.
Can you imagine a similar complaint being made claiming that being black is immoral?
or being christian??
no matter if you look at homosexuality as something you choose or something you’re born with, you haven’t got a leg to stand on when you try to criticize it as being immoral.
The current climate in the US has made classrooms battlefields for ideologies. Children are like pawns in this social conflict.
it’s a good point. of course people crap out babies like they are puppies. usually to satisfy their own selfish needs.
It’s rare to see the exception so why would they even consider the above… what’s any of this got to do with the kids anyhoo… it’s all about the parents doing the right thing….. right?
I’m confused here… does the USA not have a Catholic School System like we do in Canada? If so, why in the world are these kinds of things even debated anymore in regards to public schools?
Number5, I think that the deciding factor in this matter is quite elusive. It has to do with intent and we very well know that prosecuting intent is more slippery than ice.
When we say to students : “it is our best estimate that such a thing has … “ or, “current knowledge and theories support … “ it is not indoctrination. When a system of values acts as foundation for education, it is a different matter. Even with the best of intent, a teacher can err when rationale for subject matter is tainted by opinion, faith or politics.
The heat this debate has generated here on this forum vindicates the principal’s choice not to let pro/anti Bush politics in the classroom. It would be divisive, bringing in conflict in an environment that is already besieged by too many people who claim to hold the truth. I think that censorship is too strong a word on this matter. Sheltering a school from political strife was probably his first motive.
We wouldn’t want to hear about kids getting into fights over such matters. Another point is that principals have to deal with parents who are already strongly polarized about current politics and his job is making the school work, which is by any case already quite difficult by itself.
Is Fiji a third world ass-backwards country?
yes
No, I don’t think it really matters if this one girl sings her song or not. What I do think is a big deal is whether American public schools teach students about how our government works, and what it means to be an American. Clearly, they’re failing miserably, but of course they are, because the educators themselves don’t even understand the Bill of Rights.
ONE THIRD OF AMERICAN HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS THINK THE FIRST AMMENDMENT GOES ‘TOO FAR’ AND GRANTS TOO MANY RIGHTS