“I stand by this President’s ability, inherent to being Commander in Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don’t think you need a warrant to do that,”

Being the Commander in Chief, the American political system is little more than any of the other military juntas that have existed around the world. Democracy only works when the military protects the morals and values of the society. not when the military has NO CHOICE but the follow the orders of a man that is both head of state and head of government.

On another note, dissent is a protected first amendment right. If your right to politcal dissent is stolen from you, American friends, how much more are you willing to sacrifice before you fight to take your rights back?

Just read a rant on this at Nimmos site about building camps for amoung other things “new programs”.

“Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.
“

Shifty, do you think that the US should go after people who collaberate with the terrorists?

oooh I want a T-shirt that says “5th column”

They should come get me so that my baby won’t have a dad, he already lives in poverty. Then they can let him grow up into a boot camp like Martin Lee Andersen, that kid who was beaten to death in Florida.

My wife could get pregnant again and we will buy her a T-shirt that says HERO FACTORY” with a red white and blue arrow pointing downward. She won’t have access to proper medical care though and she will certainly not have proper nutrition.

Gee..who is the enemy again?

oooh I want a T-shirt that says “5th column”

They will probably write it on your back at the detention camp, just before they shove the baton up your arse and sic the dog on ya.

“Do you think the US should go after people who collaborate with terrorists?” What an unbelievably inept question. What about “What are the roots of terrorism, and what are the most effective means of mitigating the effects which cause terrorism to arise?” What about “Do you think it is wise to give dictatorial powers to an administration that openly disapproves of first admendment protections and which has a proven track record of flouting the Geneva Conventions, to which it is a bound signatory and legally obliged to observe, and a proven track record of incarcerating human beings without charge, indiscriminately on some occasions, for indefinit lengths of time, and which has recently overturned fundamental civil protections such as Habeas Corpus and flagrantly violates the Posse Comitatus act?” Of course some people wouldn’t know fascism if it hit them in the face. They’ll be wondering were they went wrong when they end up in one of KBR’s new “detention centers” for these new fascist “rapidly developing programs” All you need is another war (Iran) and a little more fear, and then POOF! The democracy you tried to protect by submitting to dictatorship will be gone. It’s funny, the arguments to defend Bush seem to come from people who believe they’re acting rationally, as if they have some worldly knowledge with which they feel assured that giving more power to the powerful will benefit humanity, how pitiful. Sadly, history demonstrates time and again that when you allow power to collect, and power to become unanswerable to the people, that it devolves into little else than the bestial fiefdoms that dominated the dark ages. Good job “patriots”, your blind obediance will be the end of us all…

It was a nice idea while it lasted, this United States of America, Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.
Or are there enough Brave left to stop this excrement before it goes too far?

“Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.

“Enemy” in this case equals “terrorist”. As we know, this adminstration has intentionally blurred the definition of “terrorist”, “enemy combatant”, et al. In the case of Jose Padilla, it’s clear that any random person can be snatched out of an American city and held for, apparently, several YEARS without being charged.

“Sympathize” with the “Enemy”, in the case of new vaguaries, could actually mean anybody who feels bad about, say civilian casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran (when that happens, if it hasn’t already started). Anybody who insists that the Red Cross or Amnesty International or other groups have access to Guantanamo Prisoners or prisoners held by the Military in Iraq or Afghanistan could be seen as “sympathizing”.

Stop looking at the spinning words and buzzwords and dubious terminology. The cabal in charge of our country at the moment are all magicians and wordsmiths. If they want something done, they will find a way to not only phrase the action so that it is in accordance to already vague precedents set by this administration, but will also manage to spout off excuses to the Ignant Public that have enough circular logic and absolutist, with-us-or-against-us Patriotism to the message that they Ignant Public will STILL go along with it.

At this very moment, they could start rounding up activists, the educated, and political dissenters and putting them in concentration camps, and these people would suffer for months, possibly years, before anyone was able to do anything about it.

My advice to everybody: Keep track of the people you correspond with. Keep track of acquaintances. Know where your friends are going. In the age of the so-called “Information War”, email, cellphones, instant messaging, and even websites like GNN will be our one weapon against a dissident pogrom. The moment we start seeing people drop off the map, we’ll know exactly what’s going on.

“Mysterious New Pogroms” would have been a better title, in retrospect. :)

“What an unbelievably inept question. What about “What are the roots of terrorism, “

In other words, we should validate terrorism, as just ordinary people who are doing more for the world than those who just sit around and don’t terrorize.

“Do you think it is wise to give dictatorial powers to an administration that openly disapproves of first admendment protections and which has a proven track record of flouting the Geneva Conventions, to which it is a bound signatory and legally obliged to observe, and a proven track record of incarcerating human beings without charge, indiscriminately on some occasions, for indefinit lengths of time, and which has recently overturned fundamental civil protections such as Habeas Corpus and flagrantly violates the Posse Comitatus act?”

The Administration is not a dictatorship, they support the first amendment, they support the Geneva Convention. Terror gangs cannot benefit from the full range of rights offered ordinary citizens. They are evil, they are terrorists and they were engaged in a process of war against our people.

They have many rights and they are treated very well. They just don’t have the rights to get out of jail. We can hold them as long as we need them.

do you think that the US should go after people who collaberate(sic) with the terrorists?

No, they should let them buy their ports.

“Do you think that the US …” Yes, and then invite them to the State of the Union Address, thereby making the punishment fit the crime.

do you think that the US should go after people who collaberate with the terrorists?

i think that first we need to define “terrorism.”

to me, “terrorism” is in general “the intentional targeting of non-combatant civilians in (state, or “non-state”) military operations.

under that deffinition, i would say that yes, collaberators with such terrorists should be “gone after,” but not by the U.S., becuase under this deffinition, the U.S. is a terrorist state.

i’m not one for government in the form we have come to know it, but i think the international community should handle this sort of thing, the UN.

the UN declared the war on Iraq an ILLEGAL war, and the U.S. had made it clear that international law and UN declarations mean jack shit.

then invite them to the State of the Union Address

don’t expect Iffy to admit to the connection between the Bush junta and the Saudi bin Laden family. he won’t fess up to that reality.