H12562
Headlines : GovernmentLibya sentences medics to death
The medics have been in detention since 1999, during which time 52 of the 426 infected children have died of AIDS.
The nurses and doctor were sentenced to death in 2004, but the Supreme Court quashed the ruling after protests over the fairness of the trial.
The defendants say they are being made scapegoats for unhygienic hospitals.
Defence lawyers said the medics would appeal against the new verdict, expected to be the final appeal allowed under Libyan law.
[Posted By gaanjah_mama]Republished from BBC
The defence team told the court that the HIV virus was present in the hospital, in the town of Benghazi, before the nurses began working there in 1998.
Western nations had backed the medics’ case, calling for their release.
Bulgarian officials quickly condemned the verdicts. Foreign Minister Ivailo Kalfin described the ruling as “deeply disappointing”.
EU Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini expressed his shock at the verdict and urged the Libyan authorities to review the decision.
But the BBC’s Rana Jawad in Tripoli, says it is highly unlikely that Libya’s leadership will become involved in the case, at least in public.
Celebrations
Parents of the infected children said they were happy with the verdicts.
Some cried out in court as the verdicts were delivered, while others were gathered outside carrying banners.
Posted by gaanjah_mama
"The global village is deteriorating at a rapid pace, and in the children of the world the result is rage." -Romeo Dallaire ____________________________________________________________ Harold: "You're good with people." ...
Lawyers call for science to clear AIDS nurses in Libya (Nature)
“During the first trial, the Libyan government did ask Luc Montagnier, whose group at the Pasteur Institute in Paris discovered HIV, and Vittorio Colizzi, an AIDS researcher at Rome’s Tor Vergata University, to examine the scientific evidence. The researchers carried out a genetic analysis of viruses from the infected children, and concluded that many of them were infected long before the medics set foot in Libya in March 1998. Many of the children were also infected with hepatitis B and C, suggesting that the infections were spread by poor hospital hygiene.”
But the court threw out the report, arguing that an investigation by Libyan doctors had reached the opposite conclusion. Montagnier believes the judgement was based at least partly on mistranslation from English to Arabic of the term ‘recombinant’ — instead of referring to natural recombination of wild viruses, as intended, it was interpreted to mean genetically modified, implying human manipulation.
...............................
‘A shocking lack of evidence’ in Libyan AIDS case (Nature)
A scientific report being used in the case against six foreign medical workers facing the death penalty in Libya is nothing but conjecture and supposition, say international experts. The evidence, commissioned from Libyan medics, has bolstered the charge that the six knowingly infected more than 400 children with HIV at the Al-Fateh Hospital in Benghazi in 1998.
“I don’t see any evidence in it,” says Janine Jagger, an epidemiologist and MacArthur fellow who heads the International Health Care Worker Safety Center at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. “It wouldn’t meet the lowest standards of epidemiological evidence for establishing any causal relationship.”
Luc Perrin, a clinical virologist at Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland believes the most likely scenario is that a child who was infected with HIV in Al-Fateh in 1997 or earlier, returned to the hospital in 1998. “The child now is highly infectious, so poor medical procedures or sterilization procedures will rapidly translate into a number of new HIV infections.”
........................
A Medical-Legal Travesty in Libya (NY Times)
One of the world’s greatest experts on H.I.V., Dr. Luc Montagnier, testified that the real cause of the infections was poor hygienic practices at the hospital. The infections emerged before the accused started working at the hospital and continued to spread after they were thrown in jail.
It seems clear that the government wanted to deflect public outrage by accusing foreigners of committing a horrific crime — rather than acknowledging the negligence of Libya’s health system.
This is undoubtedly a reactionary tactic in retaliation for their having been set up for the Lockerbie bombing.
Qaddafi says they’ll get off if he gets paid for it. To him European doctors are just wealthy hostages, and he’s getting mass popularity from the people who want scapegoats for the death of those children. The old scrooge cant go wrong.
Yes you are all perfectly correct.even though none of you have ever set foot in Libya and know nothing about the country or people.
No doubt your vast compendium of knowledge originates in those honest , honourable decent newspapers and television programs which do all your thinking for you.
on the other hand , if some of you were to pull your head out your ass and switch of your T.V. you might wake up ad see the patently obvious.
vis – a vie :-
1) AIDS is a genetically modified disease manufactured by Porton Down Biological warfare research laboratory in England UK.
2) The first known public knowledge of AIDS was when it was accidentally released in one of porton down’s underground lab , contaminating one of the researchers there.(He and the lab were gassed with ‘corrosives’, incinerated and buried in concrete.)
3) All of Englands state and business is controlled by freemasons.
4) So is America and Russia and most of the world.(so you yanks thought you threw the english out all those years ago?GROW UP.)
5) When the devil comes he will rise from the “Angel Isle” which is England , UK.
6) He will buy your souls with silly toys and trinkets.(All that consumer shit , cars toasters , tv’s and all that shit upon which you base your existance.That shit you train your kids to worship like gods.that pointless striving for pointless shit you brainwash into your kids to prove you are a good parent.)
7) The whole of the human species is too fucking stupid to live.
“1) AIDS is a genetically modified disease manufactured by Porton Down Biological warfare research laboratory in England UK.”
AIDS is caused by HIV which is SIV evolved. And Porton Down opened in 1916, so how do you account for the cases of AIDS dating back to the 1800’s? And how do you account for the fact that it appears AIDS has crossed species boundaries not once, but multiple times?
“2) The first known public knowledge of AIDS was when it was accidentally released in one of porton down’s underground lab , contaminating one of the researchers there.(He and the lab were gassed with ‘corrosives’, incinerated and buried in concrete.)”
cite plz
“3) All of Englands state and business is controlled by freemasons.”
Even the pubs?
“4) So is America and Russia and most of the world.(so you yanks thought you threw the english out all those years ago?GROW UP.)”
Even Starbucks?
“7) The whole of the human species is too fucking stupid to live.”
You’re ample proof of that.
shhhhh. there , there , there.Dont be afraid.Its only the truth.
shhhh. sleep … sleeep my pets.
“cases of AIDS dating back to the 1800’s … “ codswallup ! rubbish ! nonsense.dont be silly.
try not to believe everything you are told to think on T.V. its not healthy.
its ok to turn off the TV and switch on your brain.
its not illeagal.
although you may be labeled as a fanatic terrorist if you form opinions which dont conform to the ‘accepted’ propoganda.
“cite plz”
unfortunately in engerlund AIDS is classed as a weapon of war (thats why Porton Down created it).therefore i am unable to provide more details as section 91 , 92 an 93© of the official secrets act mean that to do so is punishable by death.
the death of the scientist and the ‘fuss’ created by his family and the subsequent threats issued by the stazi are all a matter of public record.
“You’re ample proof of that.” yes yes.true.that really is very clever of you.however , i would like to point out that at least my post was accurate
i am wearing extraordinarily large trousers
“Dont be afraid.Its only the truth.”
Why would I be afraid of the truth, sport?
“try not to believe everything you are told to think on T.V.”
I didn’t actually cite anything I saw on tv.
“although you may be labeled as a fanatic terrorist if you form opinions which dont conform to the ‘accepted’ propoganda.”
If you say so. I was just going to label you an idiot for sheepishly following silly baseless conspiracy theories put forth by unqualified demagogues.
“unfortunately in engerlund AIDS is classed as a weapon of war (thats why Porton Down created it).therefore i am unable to provide more details as section 91 , 92 an 93© of the official secrets act mean that to do so is punishable by death.
the death of the scientist and the ‘fuss’ created by his family and the subsequent threats issued by the stazi are all a matter of public record.”
cite plz, idiot
“i would like to point out that at least my post was accurate”
I take it your lack of knowledge and lack of intellect precludes you from explaining how my post was not. Do you think that zoonotic diseases were all created as biological weapons, or just this one?
i used to be such a nice guy. i used to be so tolerant.
but now every time someone who can’t work a damn spell checker tells me to “turn on my brain” i just ignore pretty much everything they have to say.
whatev, ckweer
“but now every time someone who can’t work a damn spell checker tells me to “turn on my brain” i just ignore pretty much everything they have to say.”
attaboy! no matter how many people tell you to “switch on your brain and think for yourself” , you just carry on ignoring them !
and always remember – “Ignorance is bliss.”
today i have been mainly wearing lederhossen.
baaah baaaah.
Did you have your personality designed by a caricature artist at an amusement park?
“cite plz, idiot”
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/04/08/story9257.asp
“Did you have your personality designed by a caricature artist at an amusement park?”
do you want to have your bottom spanked and be sent to bed early ?
That doesn’t say anything about Porton Down inventing AIDS or that it is punishable by death because it is some sort of state secret.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/04/08/story9257.asp
I couldn’t even find the word ‘aids’ on that page. How is that back up anything you said? Because the words secret, government, lab, and conspiracy showed up on the same page?
It’s talking about foot-and-mouth….
I thought, for some reason, that we were talking about AIDS.
You entered this thread thinking. Your own fault, really…
When the people telling him to turn on their brain so obviously have switched theirs off, they deserve to be ignored. Which makes me wonder why I’m bothering…
“Why would I be afraid of the truth, sport?” – because it means everything you have based your lives , dreams and hopes on is no more than a big ball of shit.a big lie.an illusion.meaningless.a pointless striving for meaningless trinkets which are a poor substitute for the things that really matter.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/04/08/story9257.asp
for those of you incapable or too afraid to think –
this is the story of how an investigation is under way to discover why the latest outbreak of foot and mouth disease is in fact a strain that was ‘manufactured, in a laboratory.
IT IS NOT A NATURALY OCCURING STRAIN.IT IS MAN MADE. DO YOU GEDDIT YET.
HOW DID A MAN MADE DISEASE GET FROM A HIGH SECURITY MILITARY BIOLOGICAL WARFARE LABORATORY ONTO THAT BLOKES FARM.
UNDERSTANDIE ? 1+1=2. IF YOU STILL CANT SEE THE CONECTION BETWEEN THE SUDDEN APPEARANCE OF MAN MADE VERSION OF A DISEASES THAT HAVE EXISTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND THE BIOLOGICAL WARFARE LABS THAT MANUFACTURE THEM,THEN KILL YOURSELF – YOU ARE A WASTE OF OXYGEN.
AIDS IS A MAN MADE VERSION OF A NATURALY OCCURING DISEASE THAT HAS EXISTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
.BEFORE ITS SUDDEN AND MYSTERIOUS APPEARANCE IT EXISTED ONLY AT PORTON DOWN BIOWAR LABORATORY. GEDDIT ? 1+1=2 NOBODY HADE AIDS TILL PORTON DOWN CREATED IT.
THE SAME IS TRUE OF THE MAN MADE VERSION OF FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE WHICH SUDDENLY APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE ON SOME BLOKES FARM.GEDDIT ? SEE THE SIMILARITIES HERE ? SEE HOW 1+1= 2.
AN EXPEDITION OF ‘SCIENTISTS’ WENT TO ALASKA TO TRY AND RECOVER USABLE DNA FROM THE GREAT INFLUENZA OUTBREAK WHICH KILLED HALF THE WORLD.THEY WILL USE THAT DNA TO CREAT NEW DISEASES AND SOON YOU WILL BE SEEING DEADLY VIRUS OUTBREAKS SPREADING. – YOU KNOW , A BIT LIKE BIRD FLUE FOR EXAMPLE.
yeah yeah i know.thats not what the media said.oh well , i must be wrong then.
“a pointless striving for meaningless trinkets”
If that’s what I based my life on then I would have gotten a job that paid a lot more than tiger training does.
“this is the story of how an investigation is under way to discover why the latest outbreak of foot and mouth disease is in fact a strain that was ‘manufactured, in a laboratory.”
Well, you use the word “geddit”, and it’s written in ALL CAPS. I’m convinced. Well done, Einstein.
“When the people telling him to turn on their brain so obviously have switched theirs off, they deserve to be ignored. Which makes me wonder why I’m bothering…”
on the other hand , you could do a bit of research to see if what ‘he’ is saying is true or not.rather than just switching off.
to find the truth you need
a)an open mind.
b) the ability to consider all possibilities , while rejecting nothing.
c) the ability to gather ALL the evidence and to see what it tells you BEFORE making up your mind.
d) the ability to ask “who funded the research.what was their vested interest.”
e) eyes wide open.
f) fuking enormous trousers and possibly a bow tie.
“When the people telling him to turn on their brain so obviously have switched theirs off, they deserve to be ignored. Which makes me wonder why I’m bothering…”
naah.no way.neither the content of the link nor anything i say or have said could possibly convince you.
however , animals , such as tigers , are not so easily fooled.yes , for a time you can use pain and starvation to make them ‘perform’ , until the day when the tiger suddenly realises that it has the power to rip you apart with a very minimal of effort.
but then i am the sort of moron that believes that the tigers should be back where they belong and not ‘performing’ for a bunch of retards.
i also belive that when it comes to apex predators as powerful as a tiger , a good policy is to leave them the fuck alone and give them a wide birth.
show them respect for what they are and dont make a foolish spectacle out of a magnificent , dying species.
“If that’s what I based my life on then I would have gotten a job that paid a lot more than tiger training does.” – you just gave yourself some excellent advice – if
only you had listened to yourself.
“however , animals , such as tigers , are not so easily fooled.yes , for a time you can use pain and starvation to make them ‘perform’ , until the day when the tiger suddenly realises that it has the power to rip you apart with a very minimal of effort.”
Thanks for showing that you know as much about operant conditioning as you do about everything else.
“i also belive that when it comes to apex predators as powerful as a tiger , a good policy is to leave them the fuck alone and give them a wide birth.
show them respect for what they are and dont make a foolish spectacle out of a magnificent , dying species.”
I believe that education is the tiger’s best chance for survival, and part of that is having them willingly demonstrate their natural behaviors, similar to those they would exercise in the wild.
“but then i am the sort of moron that believes that the tigers should be back where they belong “
They’re not in great shape out there. And the tigers I work with wouldn’t survive. So, I will continue to give them a great life, and educate the public on their plight.
“you just gave yourself some excellent advice – if only you had listened to yourself.”
Follow your dreams? I am listening to myself.
It is naturally occurring. It is merely a naturally occurring strain that has been cultured in a laboratory. A laboratory strain is not a manmade strain, it’s just a particular isolate in pure culture that’s used for study. I could buy that strain myself for a few hundred bucks with my lab credit card and have it in my hands tomorrow. Come the fuck on.
Oh, and fucking spell check, dude.
I explained this in painful detail in the other thread about Porton Down. In short, there are many ways for a virus to escape even the most locked-down biohazard facility, because any mistake will allow a microorganism out.
No, it existed in the African rainforest as SIV. Oh, and cite plz, because nothing I’ve fucking seen convinces me that AIDS was ever even AT Porton Down, least of all that shitty little article you cited.
I already have. I’m a fucking microbiologist.
Back where they belong in the habitat that’s already been destroyed and in the gunsights of poachers and hunters. Yeah, super idea, sport, we should get right on that.
“I already have. I’m a fucking microbiologist.” – oh really snark.so how come you are unable to tell the difference between SIV and HIV.
how come you cant work out the fact that AIDS was manufactured from SIV.
do you know what deoxyribonucleic acid is ?(try looking on wiki or do a search on google.)
as a micro biologist you will no doubt be aware of the fact that porton down was forced to admit they had been storing massive quantities of HIV virus long before the first outbreak of AIDS.
and they admitted they were also storing SIV.
of course you know that SIV and HIV are not genetically identical diseases.so no , AIDS has not existed for thousands of years.because AIDS IS NOT SIV.
perhaps you would like to enlighten us on your knowledge of recombinant DNA.or perhaps you would like regale us all about mitochondrial DNA .you might try wikipedia before you do.
“Oh, and fucking spell check, dude.” – colour , through , though , thought run those through your stupid fucking spell checker and see what you get duuude.
now try dyslexia.spore
read the oxford english dictionary duuude.you’re a yank or a kangaroo duuude.you dont speak english , you never did and you never will duuude.you speak pidgin english dude.as long as people understand what i am saying it dosn’t matter how the words are spelled dude sport.
“Back where they belong in the habitat that’s already been destroyed and in the gunsights of poachers and hunters. Yeah, super idea, sport, we should get right on that.”
nonsense.we should only keep them for entertainment so that fat stupid retards can sit watching them.sport.dude.that makes perfect sense.although a real microbiologist would be able to tell you what a patently fucking rediculous idea that was.
—————————————————
so , just to summerise , according to you – hiv and siv are geneticly identical sport
porton down were lying when they admitted being in possesion of HIV virus before the first known case of human infection dude.
these virii tunneled out of porton down cat.5 laboratory using a spoon.geeza
and tigers dont belong in the wild and should only exist as performing caricatures in zoos and circuses.me old mucka.sporty dude.
thanks for explaining all that.you must be a fucking microbiologist or somfing spude.
like yu most hav o qulifo … qulifico … like egzams and stuff.
““I already have. I’m a fucking microbiologist.” – oh really snark.so how come you are unable to tell the difference between SIV and HIV.”
I would say the difference is probably about the same as the difference between hepatitis in chimps and hepatitis in humans…basically there really isn’t much of a difference.
“how come you cant work out the fact that AIDS was manufactured from SIV.”
Because SIV has crossed over into humans several times: a couple of those times before any of these theories of humans making it suppose it did. I would say that it is possible that it could have crossed over from a primate lab one of these times, but humans didn’t “manufacture it”.
“of course you know that SIV and HIV are not genetically identical diseases.so no , AIDS has not existed for thousands of years.because AIDS IS NOT SIV.”
It is a bit different, just like when other zoonotic diseases make the jump from other animals to humans, or vice versa. It’s just like Ebola, herpes, hepatitis, the bubonic plague, and any other number of zoonosis that exist in the world.
“read the oxford english dictionary duuude.you’re a yank or a kangaroo duuude.you dont speak english , you never did and you never will duuude.you speak pidgin english dude.as long as people understand what i am saying it dosn’t matter how the words are spelled dude sport.”
English is an evolving language, you idiot. In many ways Americans speak more like the British of 500 years ago than you do.
“we should only keep them for entertainment so that fat stupid retards can sit watching them.”
We should educate people about them.
“porton down were lying when they admitted being in possesion of HIV virus before the first known case of human infection dude.”
When was that?
“and tigers dont belong in the wild and should only exist as performing caricatures in zoos and circuses.me old mucka.sporty dude.”
Fuck, you’re an idiot.
“I believe that education is the tiger’s best chance for survival, and part of that is having them willingly demonstrate their natural behaviors, similar to those they would exercise in the wild.”
so why not just make a wildlife film of these magnificent creatures in the wild ?
are you really teaching people about wild tigers or about trained captive tigers.
my own experience of wild and captive predators is that keeping a wild animal , which would normaly roam a vast territory , in captive conditions is bad for the animal and bad for education.
is it not possible to train captive animals to survive in the wild ? i personaly doubt wehter such programs are completely successful but i have heard of some partial successes.
i have no personal experience of tigers only jaguars pumas , lions , leopards and cheeta’s.(from the cat family) i would have thought messing about with them was generally a bad idea.hope you at least try to maintain some genetic diversity in your captive stock.i am guessing that all your animals were reared from birth in captivity.
ps.
many thanks to you for the story ganja mama.sorry – should have said that first really.
“so why not just make a wildlife film of these magnificent creatures in the wild ?”
Because they’re not easy to find, and personally seeing them creates a stronger connection. That’s the whole point of zoos. But, we’re able to take it further than a traditional zoo, and let people see tigers be active.
“are you really teaching people about wild tigers or about trained captive tigers.”
You can’t take the ‘wild’ out of a tiger. They get to see how powerful and quick they are. And while we inundate them with information they get to see it in person.
“my own experience of wild and captive predators is that keeping a wild animal , which would normaly roam a vast territory , in captive conditions is bad for the animal and bad for education.”
Tigers will only go as far as they need to. In the wild, they need to find mates, food and water. In captivity, they don’t need the room, and they wouldn’t use it. Our cats are as well exercised as possible.
I don’t know how you came up with that, though. 140 million people visit AZA accredited zoos each year, and that isn’t even counting many of the smaller zoos or aquariums.
85 percent of Americans said zoo visits encourage people to donate money or time to conservation programs
So, you are apparently very incorrect in the sense that it is bad for education.
Howabout bad for animals? In what way? Most animals live longer (at the zoo I went to school at we had 18 year old tamarins, a 44 and 38 year old capuchin monkey, and 33 and 26 year old baboons – all about double their life expectancy in the wild). Most zoo animals breed well, with more offspring surviving than in the wild. They have immediate healthcare. At the place I work and went to school, the animals are active (especially since they are both free contact facilities and we took the animals on walks or fly the birds).
“is it not possible to train captive animals to survive in the wild ?”
It is, some wolf species and California condors have been trained to do it, but their ecosystems were a bit more receptive to their re release. Tigers in Asia are still being killed. At this point the ecosystems need saving, not more tigers to be released into the fire. Though, there is a guy who has worked on training tigers to survive out in the wild and hunt (he actually just came by my facility, and introduced our show).
“i have no personal experience of tigers only jaguars pumas , lions , leopards and cheeta’s.(from the cat family) i would have thought messing about with them was generally a bad idea.”
If you don’t know what you’re doing, absolutely. Either way, it will never be “safe”, but I think working free contact is better for the animal, and more rewarding for the trainer.
“.i am guessing that all your animals were reared from birth in captivity.”
As are 90% of all captive animals nowadays. The rest are either birds, or those that were injured or orphaned.